Table of Contents
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Being an introvert, can be extremely painful in a world that seems so darned social. You may feel lonely, or like a fake, sad, or pained, just like non-introverts but you have your own unique way of engaging that, often, others don’t understand.
My guest, Bob McIntosh, is someone who is an introvert and runs workshops for job hunters (he’s an introvert, not someone who wants to be a shut in).
We discuss strategies for introverts to use when job hunting.
Promoting Yourself Into a Job Even If You’re Socially Shy or an Introvert
Hi, it’s Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter, and welcome to Job Search Radio. Being an introvert often makes people feel like they’re behind an eight ball and operating at a disadvantage in a job search. And for many of you, it’s true.
And for many of you, it can also be done differently. On this show, my guest Bob McIntosh and I talk about the strengths of introversion and how to contend with the job market more effectively. So for those of you who are introverts, I hope you enjoy the show.
And if you’re not an introvert, I think there are things that you can pick up whether you’re a job hunter or a hiring manager. So hang in there, enjoy the show, and let’s sing along. Are you looking for a new job or interested in leveling up? Job Search Radio is your go-to resource for insider tips on job hunting and growing your career.
Here’s your host, Jeff Altman. So my guest today is Bob McIntosh, a proud introvert, a career trainer who leads more than 15 job search workshops at an urban career center. He’s also the author of Job Interview Success for Introverts.
Bob, welcome to Job Search Radio. Great to have you on today. Hey, thank you, Jeff.
Thank you very much. You’re very welcome. So I get the idea that being an introvert is not exactly an advantage if you’re interviewing or job hunting.
Is that a mistake on my part? Is that pure fantasy? What do you think? Well, speaking as an introvert myself, one who prefers introversion, it can be a little difficult in certain aspects of the job search. So take networking, for instance. Introverts, you know, they’re not as comfortable networking with large groups.
They prefer to network with smaller groups, groups of five or so. They don’t feel as comfortable making small talk as extroverts do. And then when getting to the interview, they just don’t come across as enthusiastic, generally as enthusiastic as extroverts do.
I honestly believe that even introverts, introverted managers would prefer extroverted employees in some way. Really? Yeah. So if you’re an introvert and you can act more extroverted, you know, display those traits, then I think you have an easier time at the interview than you do.
I’m curious, because you made that comment about even introverted managers would prefer to hire an extrovert. Why do you think that is? I think that in today’s workforce, in the workplace, I think that people who act more outgoing, who are more, I guess, people who act more extroverted tend to make the workplace a little more comfortable. They tend to fit in better.
And, you know, which isn’t necessarily a good thing. I mean, there are plenty of spaces in the workplace for introverts. Introverts can they can be creative, but generally, you know, the workplace likes to see more excitement, more character.
And I’m going to debate on the word character. And I’ll put that one aside for now. I think the introvert is very successful doing stuff.
They research well, they accomplish a lot of things. They’re just not showboats. Not as flamboyant, but it doesn’t make them less competent.
Oh, no, absolutely not. I’m not trying to say that. What I’m saying is that, whereas introverts may excel in terms of the research, in terms of working in smaller groups, a lot of workplaces, they really rely on like an agile environment.
They rely on teamwork. And also, um, but it’s a word. While they rely on, you know, people working together, whereas introverts, they may prefer to work more in smaller groups, if maybe not, you know, if alone.
So they sort of go against the trend of the workplace. Well, the introvert, obviously, introverts can be team players. But will they be the person who will say, gee, I’m not quite sure about this? Will they have, will many of them have enough strength to stand against the group if necessary? I think that depends, again, I think that depends more on management style.
I think if you have managers who understand the people who prefer introversion and how they work best, then maybe they won’t push teamwork or brainstorming too much. And maybe they will allow people who prefer introversion to work more on their own, where they can be more creative in that way. I mean, Susan Cain in her book, Quiet, explains that introversions, I mean, introverts can be just as creative as extroverts, but they just need to do it more on their own than in a team environment.
How did the idea of the book come to you? Well, actually, I was approached, I was approached by the company, Impact Publishing in Great Britain. And they wanted to know if I wanted to write a book on how internet interviews. And so I decided to do it.
I wasn’t their first choice, but they approached me after Wendy, Wendy, my friend, turned it down. And so I went about writing the book. Interesting.
So for introverts who are interviewing, and in their mind, they may be operating at a disadvantage. Maybe yes, maybe no. What are the keys for an introvert to be most successful on an interview? Well, first of all, they have to do what they do best.
They have to research the position, the company, maybe the competition. They need to go into the interview more prepared than others. And at the interview, they need to do their best at making small talk at the beginning, if that’s what the interviewers want.
So they need to go in with their talking points. And they need to talk about appropriate subjects. And while interviewing and while answering the difficult questions, they also need to be prepared.
They need to sort of predict what kind of questions will be asked during the interview. And I think that’s the strength of an introvert. I think you remember when I asked you if you were going to have questions prepared, you said, no, we’re just going to wing it.
Well, you know, that’s an introvert’s nature. We like to have questions prepared and answers to those questions. So that’s how introverts would generally do best.
So the small talk can be problematic. And if you’re encouraging an introvert to prepare for small talk, what do you encourage them to say or do? Well, I’m encouraging them to prepare in terms of who they may be interviewed by. So let’s say they’re on LinkedIn and they know who is going to be interviewing them and they go to the profiles of those interviewers.
Then they already have some talking points in terms of commonalities. So going into the interview, prepare to make small talk. Actually thinking about the process can be more helpful in terms of making it more comfortable.
It’s not that introverts can’t make small talk. It’s just not their preference. They prefer, in other words, deeper conversation.
And that was just a wonderful nugget in defense of introverts to employers. They prefer deeper conversations than just simply the mindless prattle that extroverts or opposite personality types are prone to engage in. Yeah.
And I’m glad you caught yourself there because extroverts are just as capable as making, as deep conversation as introverts. It’s just extroverts, and it’s been proven that extroverts tend to think a little quicker on their feet in terms of conversation. Whereas introverts, they like time to process the information.
Which leads me to the point that introverts prefer to communicate via writing, whereas extroverts prefer to communicate via talking. Interesting. And we’re going to be back with more from Bob in just a moment.
But first, you’ve heard of the 10,000 hour rule, right? You know, 10,000 hours of concerted effort and energy focused on doing something, and you can become an expert. And when you go job hunting and write your resume, you have exactly how much time invested in resume writing? How about with interviewing? You’ve practiced for how long? I’m not talking about you’ve hired a bunch of people, but I’m talking about you sitting in the chair being interviewed. How about networking? How good are you at that? How much time have you invested? I think you get my point by now.
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Most of you are not anywhere near the expert that you think you are when you start job hunting. JobSearch.Community, my new site is designed to help you be more effective. It’s got curated information from me and from others to help you find work more quickly.
But more importantly, you can ask me questions to help you not make mistakes or to handle situations more effectively. Again, that site is JobSearchCoachingHQ.com. Okay, we’re back. So we were talking about how they prefer communicating by writing.
So email and in-mails and things like that are really ideal for them. This is not the medium, using Blab or a podcast. That’s not for an introvert quite obviously.
Well, not necessarily. I think that if introverts have the time to listen to a podcast, if they have the desire, if they’re really, really interested in the topic, then they are just as good at making small talk or they’re just as good at communicating through talking as extroverts are. But I mean, in terms of writing, it allows them the time to formulate their thoughts.
I know as an introvert myself, I do prefer to write, speaking, which is kind of ironic because I lead workshops at an urban career center where I’m talking almost all the day. Fascinating. And I’m sure you’re smiling part of the time too, which I know that’s one of the disguises that an introvert can use to mask the fact that they are introverted is to sit with a periodic smile on their face.
You probably the entire time, but periodically you want to put a smile on your face, particularly when you feel like you can answer the question well, or you have answered it and you feel like you really knocked that all apart. No, no, that is a good point too, because oftentimes I’ll ask during my MBTI workshop, so what do you think I am, an introvert or an extrovert? And those who don’t know any better will usually say an extrovert. And that’s because I am very gregarious.
I’m very animated during the workshop. It’s not that introverts don’t have the ability to speak. I mean, my colleague is probably one of the best speakers I know, and she’s introvert.
So it’s just really our energy level. And for the, for those two hours that I’m doing the workshop, I’m on my game. It’s almost as if I’m on stage.
So yeah, yeah, well, absolutely. But, you know, and so they’re surprised when I tell them that I’m an introvert, they say, no way, no way. You know, I mean, people have these preconceived notions of introverts as being shy, as being reclusive, as you know, you name it.
I even heard one person say that introverts are boring. Yeah. For the introverted person interviewing, we’ve so far talked to them about researching in advance.
So this way, you have your talking points for small talk. You have your talking points about the interviewer. I suggest them the notion of smiling from time to time in the interview as a way of demonstrating rapport with the interview.
What else should people be doing as introverts to be more successful in their interviews? Well, I mean, they just need to go to the interviews with more information. They need to be able to talk about more about the position and the company and even the competition than the other candidates. It’s just the person who provides the most information and sells him or herself better, you know, is going to win the job.
And introverts do have a little difficulty in terms of promoting themselves. You know, they often say, I can’t promote myself. You know, I didn’t accomplish anything at work.
But when you sit down with them and you really drag those, you know, those accomplishments out of them, then the light goes off. It’s like, wow, yeah, you know, I did accomplish a lot where I worked. So they got to be able to speak about their accomplishments.
I mean, what separates the average candidate from the great candidate are accomplishments. The great candidate is the one who’s going to come in there with the accomplishments. So I really, really, I really advise people and this goes for extroverts as well, to go to the interview with accomplishments in mind, you know, trying to predict what kind of questions will be asked based on the job description, based on who they may have networked with.
You know, they’re going to have more information and they’re going to be able to really sell themselves better. So let me ask you a question. When I coach people, I tell them to ask the question I’m going to offer you at the beginning of the interview before it really starts.
So let’s say it’s a phone interview or in-person interview. You know, there’s this one little pleasantry I suggest that they say, you know, thanks for making the time to call or, you know, thanks for reaching out. You know, I saw the position description and I’m curious, you know, what’s your take on the role? Could you tell me about the job as you see it and what I can do to help? Now, my thinking is that’s a great question for an introvert to ask because it gives them a ton of information at the beginning of the interview when they can actually use it.
Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great way to start the discussion. You know, instead of allowing the recruiter or the HR person to go into the salary question, start off by saying exactly what you said and more.
So what is it that you liked about my resume? I mean, in other words, why are you calling me? But in that way, you know, Jeff, like you’re demonstrating, you get that interviewer to start selling you to, you know, himself or herself. And thus, in my thinking, the person can talk about what they’ve done that matters to the interviewer and not just talk about what they’ve done, which may be on a completely different tangent. That’s right.
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And see, once you understand the requirements and really the nuances of the job, then you will become that person who can perform those responsibilities and take on those challenges. But that’s a very good point. And you should also, you know, and I do this as well, you should also coach your clients in terms of being prepared for that 30-second commercial.
That is a common question that or directive that recruiters and HR and 30-second commercial, the elevator pitch. The elevator pitch, yeah. Tell me about yourself, right? And in my thinking, the standard elevator pitch, you know, I’ve been writing for years, ditch the pitch.
But in response to that, tell me about yourself question. I think once you have the answer to that question, I offer it up. You can talk about what you’ve done that matters to the employer and not just talk about what you’ve done.
So I could see where, you know, an introvert might need a few seconds to sort things through and not have the canned response, you know, come off their tongue as readily as an extrovert. Right. Now, keep in mind, though, that now this is really where an introvert may excel over an extrovert is the research, is the research in terms of not only the positions and company and competition, but also the research in terms of him or herself, you know.
So, you know, it would be smart for every type to really write down that elevator pitch. It would be smart for everyone to really put a lot of effort into their resume and LinkedIn profile as well as cover letter and so forth. And that’s where I think introverts are really focused on are those, you know, writing examples.
And, you know, once you have that commercial written down, once you have really rehearsed it, then you can deliver it. And in my coaching, I always tell people practice is the big differentiator between an A performer and interviewing and a washout. That’s absolutely great.
Athletes have talent galore. But what makes a team win is they’re practicing these plays. It doesn’t matter what sport is.
They have the framework down. They have the system in place that they’re operating from. And then there are times that they can, you know, work off the play and do the repetition, repetition.
You know, if you play baseball, you know how important it is to get those swings in. It’s just like the job search. You know, it’s got to be repetitive in terms of, you know, taking care of the writing and the speaking aspect of the job search, you know, really practicing both sides of the communications, the written and the verbal communications.
And the job hunters, if you’re doing a phone interview, you know, I’m going to let you on a secret. They can’t see it. So you can have a resume out and you can take notes.
Like if you have a highlighter and you’ve asked that question, I’ve suggested, you know, just highlight some things on your resume that you want to hit as part of your answers so that you’re not missing anything that’s relevant to the interviewer. So it’s easy on the phone. Now, in person, it changes a little bit because you do have to be somewhat spontaneous.
But again, if you’re prepared, if you’re prepared with those talking points, if you really, really understand what value the employer is looking for, then you’ll be able to make small talk, you know, you’d be able to focus on that employer. So we’ve got all this practice down. What else should introverts be doing on their interviews to really knock it out of the park? Well, I, you know, what more to say than just be the right person for the job, you know, come across as confident.
You know, it is important to smile. It’s important to deliver a firm handshake. But it’s really, really important to come across as confident.
You can do the job that that’s that’s the important thing. You are a good fit for the company. Think of it in three three ways.
OK, you can do the job. You will do the job and you will fit in. I mean, I’ve heard that being said for 20 or so years and it’s never going to change.
So you need to prove to the employer that you can cover those three components. And I’m a believer that employers look for competence, but that’s not sometimes they miss on that one degree of self-confidence, character, chemistry. The introvert is going to have trouble, trouble with the next one, which is charisma.
But fundamentally, it’s all about personal leadership and the ability to inspire confidence. That person is the solution to a need. You know, I think you’re going to you’re going to have some of you say, well, introverts can be charismatic as well.
They can. They can. We can be charismatic.
We can talk in front of groups. We can do it just as well as extroverts. But it really comes down to that energy level.
I think my my worst nightmare would be what we call a guerrilla interview. And I’m sure you’ve been on them where you have face to face interviews all throughout the day. That’s when you really get that.
That’s where it’s all about the energy. It’s not about your ability to speak. So I agree with you wholeheartedly.
So practice, practice, practice, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. I’m going to simply tell my audience, I’ve got a site launching around the time this show goes live, on JobSearchCoachingHQ.com, which is going to give you answers to tons of those interview questions that you’re asked all over the place. It’s going to have hundreds of questions and answers prepared for you to help you practice.
So if you’re an introvert watching this show, Job Search Coaching HQ will have answers for you that you can practice. So visit the site, sign up. I think it’ll be a great asset for you.
Sorry, it seemed like a useful opportunity. I want to make sure everyone has some some great final words from you. So what haven’t I asked you about that we really should cover in the course of our conversation? Once you get the job, OK, once you get the job, make sure that you promote yourself so that you can get to the next level.
Now, it may not be easy for you if you prefer introversion to go up to the boss and brag about your accomplishments. I shouldn’t use the word brag. It may be easier for you, as I do, and simply shooting an email, forwarding an email of a very, you know, complimentary email you received from a customer or client.
That may be an easier way for you to promote yourself. But, you know, once you get the job, you have to continue to promote yourself, continue to show that you deserve advancement. You deserve management.
And I also encourage you folks that a regular email to your boss talking about some of the things that you’ve accomplished since the last email, just simply said, hey, you know, I know you’re busy, but I just want to give you an idea of what I’ve accomplished in the last two weeks or over the course of the last month and just lay it out for them allows you to be promoting yourself. It also helps you, you know, in preparing your next resume, because after all, these are the summaries of your achievements during the course of a one month period. They’re now documented.
It makes it easy to update your resume. It helps you to come review time when your boss sits down with you and says, so justify why we should think highly of you. You know, that’s ultimately how you translate those magic moments.
And you can pull out your documentation from the past year or six months, whatever period of time it is, and be able to demonstrate all the successes that you’ve had over the course of the period of time of the review. And remember to quantify it in terms of money saved and money earned. It makes a load of difference.
So, Bob, thank you. How can people find out a bit more about you, your work, your book, the sun, the moon, as far as everything? Well, hey, you know, first of all, thanks for having me on. Here’s my book.
Job Interviews to Successful Introverts. Okay, you can find it on Amazon. In terms of contacting me, invite me to be a connection on LinkedIn.
All I ask is a personal invitation. Just type in Bob McIntosh without an A and you’ll find me on LinkedIn. I’m also on Twitter at Bob underscore McIntosh underscore one.
And yeah, believe it or not, now I’m on Facebook. Oh, Facebook! So now I’ve got the big three covered. On another thing, another thing before we go is introverts or anyone out there, don’t rely on LinkedIn as your only way of networking, okay? Because networking is so important in the job search.
You know, LinkedIn should be a supplement to your personal networking. You need to get out there, whether you prefer to talk to smaller groups, that’s fine. You know, have meetups, meet people for coffee, but you got to network.
It’s all about networking. I’m going to recircle back and let’s continue the show for a little bit longer. You know, I’ve got someone that I coach who’s very introverted.
She’s not a partner. She’s one step below partner at a large accounting firm. It’s obvious that it’s painful for her to network and she’s a wall hugger.
That’s the best way I could put it. So for the introverted networker, what do you recommend that they do to be more successful? First of all, I say think of networking as really connecting, you know, just connecting with people. It doesn’t have to be at an organizing networking event.
It could be just in the community, but connect with as many people as possible. Get the word out that you’re out of work, what you’re capable of and what type of work you’re looking for. And when you do go to those organized networking events, you know, do it on your schedule.
Don’t think that you need to work the room and you need to collect 10 business cards that night. Maybe you talk to two or three people that night, that, that, and if they’re quality conversations, like deep conversations, then I think that’s a success. I happen to agree.
I’m sorry, what was the last thing you said? Yeah, follow up. Okay. All that hard work waste by not following up.
The notion that you have to talk to 10 people or collect 10 business cards is some lovely fantasy that people who are selling networking, how to network more successfully in 10 easy lessons to self-promotion. When the reality is if you want to be making quality connections, and if it’s two, if it’s one, it doesn’t matter because it’s a lot better than the superficial connection. So I happen to agree with you.
It’s all about the quality. Hey, Bob, thank you so much. Again, I really appreciate it.
Hey, it was wonderful talking to an expert. He’s right. I can’t hide it.
Yeah, you can’t hide it. What are you an ENJ? I’ll get to that. I think it’s ENFJ.
But folks, I’ll be back next time with someone else to help you be more effective with your job search. I’m Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter. I hope you enjoyed today’s show.
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